"CRACK THE CIA"
"Joseph Goebel'sÖthe propaganda chief for Adolf Hitler and the NazisÖ figured out was that the most effective means of repression is repression that a person puts on himself or herself."
Can you give us a more elaborate description of how the war on drugs is a form of psychological warfare.
The war on drugs is a form of psychological warfare on several different levels. The most basic level is as communication - the propaganda coming out of the White House, out of the television sets and so forth concerning drugs and not just concerning drugs but concerning particular policies about drugs and how things are supposed to be.
So you have that sort of communication side of it.
Meanwhile you have an
extremely violent side of it and the violence comes down in terms of the arrest
and prison policiesÖ Hundreds of thousands of people now are in prison in the
Is there a covert American militaristic strategy to control certain drug flow into this country?
The CIA's operational
directorate, in other words thatís their covert operations, para-military,
dirty tricks - call it whatever you want - has for at least 40 years that we
can document paid for a significant amount of its work through the sales of
heroin and cocaine. It happened in
With the war on drugs - we have quotes from US judges who say that the drug laws which put a person carrying a gram of crack cocaine in prison for life is a racist policy - is there an inherently racist element to the cocaine laws? And what is the nature of a government that on one hand legislates its people very harshly for drugs and yet, another arm of it has its own importation strategies?
Is there an inherently
racist aspect of the cocaine policies in the
Are we being governed by people who are coming out of crime ridden networks? Is there a culture of lawlessness at the level of governance?
Thatís a very complicated question because it depends on what you mean by crime. One of the aspects of power and when an elite holds power is that they legalize what they do. So if you ask is Bill Clinton a product of a crime network, I would say probably not - because much of what Bill Clinton did, with the exception of some relative technicalities, had been legalized! And you see this both on the national level and you see it on an international level.
When you look at
I really donít buy a coup by the intelligence community in the sense that some people put it forward. I think the intelligence community is very influential in American politics both because it has the president's ear on important issues, and because it quite systematically pursues its own interests in terms of lobbying Congress, lobbying the media and so on. George Bush was particularly attuned to the intelligence community and its view of the world and so on. But for the most part, the CIA is the tool of the White House and not the other way around, at least in my opinion.
Are there groups that would benefit from a society addicted to heroin or a generation of kids who do a lot of drugs?
Yeah, I think so. I think that one of the characteristics of so-called globalization, one of the characteristics of capitalism's consumer-style capitalism in this present stage is a large so-called surplus population of people who donít buy enough stuff because they donít have the money to do it because they donít have the jobs. So itís a problem for the government as to what to do with these people. In terms of sheer numbers, most of them are so-called white people, but in terms of percentage of population, there's a large percentage of minorities. What is being done with these people? Well what's being done with a lot of them is they are being put in jail. And it's reached a point now where building jails is a growth industry that is almost moving as quickly as building computers is, for heaven's sakes. And they can't build the jails fast enough. So now the next step is different forms of monitoring devices. You know, you get a strap and there's a device that gets attached to your leg and the courts can monitor you and this is a substitute for prison. And the next step beyond that at least as I see things, is self-imposed prison.
If you go back and you
study Joseph Goebel's work on propaganda
during the 1930s, during the Hitler years, Goebels
was the propaganda chief for Adolf Hitler and the
Nazis. Vicious anti-Semite. Mass
murderer. And a very clever SOB. And one of the things that he figured out
was that the most effective means of repression is repression that a person
puts on himself or herself. That even in a country like Nazi Germany - even
in the country with that level of brutality and hatred and violence - that all
of the SS men could not keep ordinary German people down unless ordinary German
people took in this ideology of Nazism and believed it themselves. So Goebels worked out some ways to encourage this happening.
That, I think, was not unique to Nazi Germany. I think that human beings do
that in a lot of different circumstances and I think they do it in today's
circumstance. I don't think that the
I have a cell phone. As a matter of fact, I wish I had brought it - I would have shown it to you. And occasionally I get business cards from people and they say the name of the guy or woman and their address and telephone and all this stuff and they'll say - there'll be a number and it'll say cell. You know? I mean it's like their cell number - it's like a cell in a prison.
It's because here's this device that follows you absolutely wherever you go, where you are on call absolutely 24 hours a day. And with really even the most minor technological adjustments that are in fact underway now, you can be tracked 24 hours a day on the basis of your cell phone. You get people who voluntarily get one of these darn things and they'll pay to be put in a cell and to be followed around and tracked like this! And it's logical to them. And in a certain weird sense, it's even in their interest to do it. It's because it can be used in ambitious ways to advance a person's career and that sort of thing. But this is how the internalization of the world-view works. It's how we come to believe that our repression is actually a benefit to us.