Intelligence Insider

Former CIA Operative

Guerrilla News: How did you get interested in the realm of mind studies and trance induction?

Mark Phillips: That's the easiest question I have ever been asked. My mother and

I were riding a horse when I was six years old. She fell off and received enormous brain damage. I didn't feel I was smart enough to become a brain surgeon, or a doctor, but I wanted to find out why she was the way she was. So hence I seized every opportunity I could to learn as much as I could. And the more I learned, the more popular I became with my employers, and the more I learned.

Guerrilla News: Do you think we, as a society, have a lot to learn about the mind?

Mark Phillips: Everything to learn. Mind sciences, or the study of human behaviour in relation to the mind, is the newest of all the arts. It's less than one hundred years old. And it is, by far, the one that is most cloaked in secrecy.

Guerrilla News: Has there been, in the past, a tendency for military science to abuse the minds of its civilians?

Mark Phillips: I believe that the military use, of what is known about mind sciences, (including psychological warfare), has been around since the earliest recorded history. Wars are not won on the battlefield. They're won in the minds of the people.

Guerrilla News: Define the term ‘psychological warfare'.

Mark Phillips: ‘Psychological Warfare’ is nothing more than a series of well-planned, and well-executed, invisible programs, all working in tandem - none of them knowing what the other one is doing - to manipulate the minds or our enemies, or our adversaries, into BELIEVING SOMETHING QUITE DIFFERENT THAN WHAT REALITY IS. So they are misled, and we in turn win the war, that's actually never fought on a battlefield.

Guerrilla News: Explain where the origins of  ‘mind control' stem from.

Mark Phillips: Mind control research has been around since the Egyptian Book of the Dead was recorded. You can see the entire formula for trauma-based mind-control, right there in the Egyptian Book of the Dead. It has escalated from there through various religions, or cults as they are called, for thousands of years. And as a result of that, Hitler gave Himmler the charge, to research the multi-generationally incest abusing families of Northern Europeans. Because Himmler had found out that these people had incredible, what Hitler termed, ‘superhuman'

traits as a result of this mind-control.

Guerrilla News: Give us a little history lesson. As World War II was ending, there had been a lot of research done by the Nazis. How did the Allies feel about these people and their research?

Mark Phillips: Well what the United States was concerned with, was that these Nazis, these scientists that had all this information and data, we couldn't seem to prosecute them. We couldn't even find them. Because they had already, a lot of them, scattered out to various countries like Russia, Italy and South America.  So what the CIA convinced Congress to do, to pass this Project Paperclip, as a legal means of importing these people into the United States, and introducing them into our military industrial complex, including our colleges and universities. Their statement was simply this: If we don't bring these people into our country and contain them, then our enemies, the Soviet Union, will get them. So it was the same old bugaboo game, when, in fact, I've often made the statement, and I still make it flippantly: The Nazis didn't lose the war, they just had to move.

Guerrilla News: So give us a definition. What was the exact nature of Project Paperclip?

Mark Phillips: Project Paperclip was a United States' government sanctioned (by Congress) CIA project, that actually began in 1947 - it was approved by Congress in 1946 - for the importation of Nazi and fascist scientists into the United States.

Guerrilla News: What were the basic mechanics of Project Paperclip?

Mark Phillips: Project Paperclip was nothing more than a transport operation.  The airline that I worked for, Capital International Airways (C.I.A.), was a large contributor to this. Every airline that I know of in the United States was used, whether they knew it or not. But Capital, along with a couple of other carriers, were the primaries. Capital was actually put into business in 1947, because of Project Paperclip.  And it was just the transportation of moving these people and their families around the world, wherever they wanted to go. But mainly, the first wave, was to bring these scientists. There were 700 odd scientists that were propulsion scientists, that they brought in. And then there were some 600 and some odd, who were not propulsion scientists, they were psychiatrists. Or mind sciences people. I wouldn't distinguish them by calling them psychiatrists.

Guerrilla News: Interesting. So when they got here, what were some of the duties that these Project Paperclip scientists had to work on?

Mark Phillips: Well I think, to give you an example, Werner Von Braun, is the most famous of them all. Most people recognize him because he was put out front as the pretty boy, put in charge of this National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA), to develop what Hitler had already developed, the V2 rocket, into something that could carry people, or individuals into outer space.

Guerrilla News: Was this propulsion research linked to mind control? And were these Nazis carrying out any extension of the Nazi ideology in their work?

Mark Phillips: Of course we're talking about two separate sciences. Mind control, and we're talking about propulsion sciences. Both of them were part of the Hitler war machine. Some of these people were dedicated Nazis.  Most of them that I knew, were dedicated scientists, and really didn't have any political persuasion. And you could call them a Nazi -  you could call them a Baptist. It didn't make any difference to them. And ethnic had nothing to do with it - some of them were Jewish. Some of them were Gentiles. Some of them were Austrian. It was a whole cross-section of people. These were just people. But they were involved in some of the highest technologies known at that time, which included propulsion sciences and mind control.

Guerrilla News: So when did the CIA pick up on mind control, and where did it go from there?

Mark Phillips: Well the ‘CIA' was actually working on it in the 20's. But there was no CIA in the 20's. So it was really being done in private laboratories, and quite openly, and by 1931 there were a couple of articles, that actually hit the national papers, like Doctor Skinner's work, and him putting his daughter in what was known as the Skinner Box. And, of course, you have photographs of that. The CIA's interest in it became piqued when, after World War II, they found more research had been done by Hitler, on mind control, of not only the masses, but individuals, more research was dedicated to that, than even the rockets. And as a matter of fact, Werner Von Braun commented to a reporter one time, that if the money had been spent on rockets and not diluted in some of these other areas, they probably would have won the war.

Guerrilla News: So there was a huge interest for Hitler in mind control?

Mark Phillips: Huge. Hitler didn't believe that a nuclear holocaust was the answer for winning the war. He did not believe in nuclear weapons. For obvious reasons; he did not want to spoil his spoils. So he believed that first of all the V2 rockets, was even outfitted with whistles, so that it would begin to terrorize. It was a psychological warfare weapon, combined with an ordinance delivery system, that had ever been seen before on the planet. So he was overwhelming Northern Europe, particularly Great Britain, with these rockets as a psychological thing, more than any sort of damage they could do. But the mind control aspect of it was a hidden science, that Hitler had beliefs, steeped in mysticism, steeped in - he had sent a whole troop of his scientists, all the way to Tibet, to discover what, he felt, they knew with regards to mind control. And whether he went away disappointed, I really don't know. History doesn't really tell us much on that, though we've got the videos and the tapes of that trek, of sending these scientists up the side of these mountains in Mongolia. I mean this is major stuff, that he would stop right in the middle of the war, to send valuable scientists into such an extraordinary environment.

Guerrilla News: Ok and then, what about the U.S.?

Mark Phillips: Mind control research in this country for war purposes, psychological warfare purposes, it started out really for the military. And for espionage. That is where their main interest lied.  So around 1952, the CIA's reporter over in Korea, released the term ‘brainwashing', to introduce the whole idea and concept to the American people, that there was something else at play in the arsenal of weaponry, with the Chinese.

Guerrilla News: So what do you think it is about the mind sciences, that make them so appealing to groups who want to dominate, and control other people?

Mark Phillips: Well going back to the earlier statement, that all wars are won in the minds of the people, not on the battlefield. I believe this is the basis for the United States, as well as for all other governments, who are actively engaged in mind control research and application. In fact, that's their belief.

Guerrilla News: What was the thinking behind the CIA's initial desire, to create MK-ULTRA?

Mark Phillips: Well, I believe that the thinking of the OSS at that time, and the OSI and, of course, that became the CIA, The CIA (or Central Intelligence Agency), was given the responsibility of actually placing the individuals out of Project Paperclip, these Nazi and fascist scientists, dealing with the mind control sciences into the military industrial complex, for other development of this secret technology, that Adolf Hitler regarded as the world's most dangerous and absolutely, the best war tool that anyone could have, for taking over the planet.

Guerrilla News: So what was it called?

Mark Phillips: The name for the mind control research in this country was MK-ULTRA, and the earliest that we know about, through Freedom of  Information documents is 1952.

Guerrilla News: Is that the only name we have for mind control operations in the United States?

Mark Phillips: MK-ULTRA evolved in actually Project Bluebird, was the first project to spin out, and that was in 1947. Actually, some people say that was in '49, but documents prove it was 1947.  So it started immediately upon these scientists being brought into this country.  They immediately dovetail into Bluebird, and then it went to MK-ULTRA, and then MK-SEARCH, I mean it's changed names so many times, that nobody knows what it's called now.

Guerrilla News: Who were the first subjects exposed to MK-ULTRA?

Mark Phillips: The first subjects that the CIA was interested in, were people who were coming out of the battlefield, and people who had actually been exposed to primitive forms of brainwashing by the Russians, as well as the Chinese, Japanese, and, from my knowledge then in Korea, of course. In 1952, it was announced by a CIA news person, who was reporting from the front, that we had soldiers coming back, who were saying what great people, and what a great country North Korea was.  And that was just unheard of at that time. So they were seeding the population of the United States with the idea: "Hey, we got another problem that we need to dump tons of money into, and tons of research, but you can't know what it is."

Guerrilla News: After they studied soldiers, who were their next targets?

Mark Phillips: Well, I believe that the next targets were people that were incarcerated within penitentiaries and mental institutions, as proven by the Dr. Ewen Cameron research.

Guerrilla News: And how did the government use the law to protect themselves?

Mark Phillips: In 1947, after the President of the United States told the Pentagon, and told Congress, that he'd made a mistake signing this Project Paperclip into law, there was of course an exemption on that Project Paperclip, which said that "no person that was a part of the Nazi party, could be brought into this country." Or professed Nazi. Well, that just about eliminated everybody they could have brought in on Project Paperclip. So, what they did was, they established the 1947 National Security Act, which took over the rules of ethical military conduct, which the military had been using for years to protect our country's secrets. What actually happened was, we have never had such a flood of loss of national secrets, intelligence secrets, technology secrets, since that time. Never. It's been unprecedented in American history, that we have lost this much information. But the National Security Act, is not, I don't believe, and anyone else who has worked under it, we all believe, it was just to cover crimes. It was not to cover secrets.